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 Airsoft Physics 101

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm

Well,
if you carry around a 12 0z + bottle, I doubt your fill ups would really be that frequent.

Depending on the gun I was using, (Cocker or Spyder)

I could go through half a case easy with no shoot down. (1000 paintballs).

ANd a paintball is much larger and heavier than an airsoft bb, therefore, although the ROF may have been higher, (Not my much with electro guns) I would venture to guess that gas efficiency would have been MUCH better on an airsoft gun.

I can honestly say that in all my years playing paintball, I never had a blow out either.

Granted, I always had my bottle on the gun.

If the accuracy of the gas gun really is the "Holy grail" of airsoft, then the relatively inferior performance afforded by the AEG, would never have swept to popularity as it did.

The better tech would have been able to hold its ground, even with price differentials.

Based on this and other physics issues, I think that the alleged extreme superiority of the gas guns has simply fallen victim to hype and exaggeration.

I personally like using a battery as the power source.

I hated the bulky, ugly CO2/Nitro bottles.

We will have to test the current gas powered sniper rifles to see the truth.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:23 pm

There is no "extreme" superiority.

From experience, you get an easier to control FPS (120-140 PSI is roughly 300-400 fps) via the regulator, and a much higher rate of fire. Apart from a nice range increase (200ish feet wasn't uncommon with slightly modified Asahi's or Top's) they were about the same as an AEG, just pricier (Asahi's were like $600 or something).

Different gas system than the ones in current gas sharpshooting rifles though. It'd be better to get a hold of a Sun Project.
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:45 pm

You dont call 50 extra ft extreme thats fine.

I do.

a 30-40% increase in range is a significant improvement.

Assuming that info is accurate, which I have still yet to confirm.

I have heard the same as what you are stating, I have seen some vids of the Asahis on Youtube, but it has not been conclusive.

IF they were that much better they would not have been effectively discontinued.

Even if the price was high, you and others have made it clear that would not result in a loss of buyers.

I still maintain, that most, if not all airsoft guns operate within the same basic parameters.

150' is for the most part the max effective range of an airsoft gun.

Even for high performance stuff, and I am done debating with you whether or not you can squeeze 10' out of tight bore barrel or some other add on.

The purpose of this thread is to enlighten those who make wild and silly claims about certain brands and their effective range.

Based on the principles which affect all airsoft bbs, the only thing that would improve range aside from the tight bore barrel (At least from what I have seen)

is added bb weight and velocity.

THerefore, unless you are using ..28+ bbs firing at 3-400 fps, the numbers I have cited are going to hold true accross the board.


Thats the purpose of this thread

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:35 pm

Do you mean effective range in semi-auto, full-auto or just in general, because for me with my M14 it is easy to hit 150' targets in semi auto with my scope, and with the hop up adjusted perfectly, you can get even more, around 170-180(but I have a TB and it DOES make a huge difference in groupings at long range)
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:07 pm

I don't think at 180 ft. any AEG is going to be hitting the target every time. My Echo 1 is effective at that range, but only in 5-7 round bursts. With a 5 round burst, you can expect 2-3 BBs to hit the target. At 200 ft. it is not likely that you will be getting a lot of kills, but if you are a very good shot, and the enemy thinks you have no chance, you can get a kill here and there.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:17 pm

i didn't say it was too easy hitting targets farther than 180ft.

But with a target scope it makes it not as hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:19 pm

Yeah, that would make it a lot easier.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:50 pm

Well, most airsoft replica's I've handled come with a 6.08 or 6.07mm barrel bore. A tight bore barrel provides a better fit for the pellet, and at the same time reduces the "bouncing" effect you keep describing.

People everywhere have installed tight bores and increased accuracy, range, and fps slightly. The gain with a tight bore seems to be mostly consistent groupings. Range increases are slight, and fps increases are usually 5-10 fps. I've installed tight bore 6.04mm barrels on most of my replicas, with a 6.03mm Deep Fire on a friend's M15A4. Both he and I agree that there is a noticeably tighter grouping at a given distance than without.

From previous chrony's, I've gained about 7 fps on average from a 6.04mm (as compared to a stock 6.08mm) barrel.
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:00 pm

Jeez, thats not that much, on my CA I gained about 23fps approx.

Haha, the G&G M14 comes with a 6.04mm barrel STOCK!
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:18 pm

On average. My ICS only gained like 5, while my M15A1 netted 14 or 15. My TM gained 4, and my Well R6 had 12. It varies a lot.

Wish I wrote down the exact numbers. I keep an "airsoft" journal that has things like when I last greased the gears, or when I installed something, and records what changed from stock and what changed from previous.


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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:20 pm

Does anybody know what metal Echo 1 makes their barrels with?
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:21 pm

why dont you email E1? just dont ask them who their OEM is because then they wont reply...

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:31 pm

Brass or aluminum is usually what it is. Both my CA and ICS came with aluminum inner barrels with some brass added in for lubricity while my TM and clones came with just brass barrels.

They are made of brass so that they are both cheap and easier to clean since stainless steel and aluminum are more expensive alternatives. The inner barrel must have a clean, super smooth surface that doesn't wear down with friction and doesn't foul easy with dirt or plastic particles.

Ideally they'd be chromium plated high carbon steel, but I don't think you want to pay for $200 inner barrels Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:32 pm

Yeah, I expected them to have brass barrels, I know not to ask who their OEM is because I already know its JG!
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:42 pm

I took off the outer barrel last night, and the inner barrel looked like brass.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:46 pm

See, people like to throw around numbers and I admit that I used to as well before I actually started measuring.

I used to think that I could accurately hit 200' ft targets.

The bbs are FALLING at 200' so technically they are reaching that range.

But, from a bench rest, firing at a 150' target, it is a challenge, usually only predictably done on full auto.

Now, I am hopefully going to be able to put a definitive end to all this silly back and forth, when I test a CA or ICS.

Until then it is TBD.

Actual measurement can bring a real dose of reality that is sometimes hard to take.

When people start talking about 150' + its kind of like talking about that HUGE trout that you almost caught, but got away.

Rule of thumb, when someone says it was "This long".

It is generally shorter.

Hence my skepticism.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:53 pm

That is weird, because I have measured targets at 150 ft. and I can usualy hit them easily. You are probably right though about the 200 ft., I have not really measured it. I agree with what you are saying, that airsoft guns are all going to perform about the same.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:25 pm

Yep you maybe right, but I did a measured 160ft. last week to show my friends that I was a better shot than him, and that my gun was better
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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:37 pm

Oh, I know I have got hits over 160, I'm just not sure exactly how far they were.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:57 am

Admin wrote:
Actual measurement can bring a real dose of reality that is sometimes hard to take.

When people start talking about 150' + its kind of like talking about that HUGE trout that you almost caught, but got away.

Rule of thumb, when someone says it was "This long".

It is generally shorter.

Hence my skepticism.

Couldn't have worded it better myself. My CA M15A4 shoots mabye 200' MAX. Meaning at say, 175 feet they start to fall over and are generally slow enough to be avoided. 150' is pretty much the furthest "accurate" zone, as I can still hit a man sized target at that range. But that's about it. At 150'+ feet, you're just getting lucky with this gun.

Though my accuracy suffers because of its hopup unit, there was really only a decrease in accuracy, not range. So for others to say that their were kills at 200 ft from a stock gun, there must have been a lot of luck, and maybe even a little bit of lobbing, which to me seems like a fluke.

I don't think it's good to say that you got a kill at such and such a measurement, but rather that you can hit a target at a measured distance instead. Who knows how far away exactly you and your target were when you made the shot. Plus, if you can hit a person at 200', there is no reason that you can't hit a man sized target at 200'. (for example if you're sure it shoots 200' or similar, why not break out a target and see how many rounds hits it, on a burst even?)

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:14 pm

Almost everything you said was right. When I got the kill at about 200 ft. I wasn't aiming right at the guy, because I new it wouldn't hit him. I was aiming where I new the BBs would get blown by the wind, but instead of blowing the so that they missed the target, it blew them right at the guy. The guy also wasn't even trying to hide, he was just standing there because he didn't think there was any chance I could get him.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:53 pm

Airsoftguy wrote:
Almost everything you said was right. When I got the kill at about 200 ft. I wasn't aiming right at the guy, because I new it wouldn't hit him. I was aiming where I new the BBs would get blown by the wind, but instead of blowing the so that they missed the target, it blew them right at the guy. The guy also wasn't even trying to hide, he was just standing there because he didn't think there was any chance I could get him.

Cool. I still like the idea that you can get a kill at 200' with an mp5. That is really cool for such a compact gun.

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PostSubject: Re: Airsoft Physics 101   Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:01 pm

Yeah, It's pretty cool. I didn't think it was even possible to make a gun that accurate. (I had only used spring guns)

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