lol CA sportline (funny ASGI quote)

"Classic Army has set the bar for high end airsoft guns over the last couple years. They were the first company to offer airsoft guns with metal bodies for an affordable price. They have created a reputation for quality and enabled airsoft to flourish here in the United States. Now Classic Army has released their Sportline geared towards new players. This new line of plastic AEGs has the same quality of Classic Army for an even more affordable price."

Same quality as CA lol! I guess blue nylon bushings, blue barrel, and blue cylinder are as good as CA to name a few.....lol

Price to performance quality.

I think they are referring that.

Stealthmasterairsofter14 wrote:

"Classic Army has set the bar for high end airsoft guns over the last couple years. They were the first company to offer airsoft guns with metal bodies for an affordable price. They have created a reputation for quality and enabled airsoft to flourish here in the United States. Now Classic Army has released their Sportline geared towards new players. This new line of plastic AEGs has the same quality of Classic Army for an even more affordable price."

Same quality as CA lol! I guess blue nylon bushings, blue barrel, and blue cylinder are as good as CA to name a few.....lol

CA has set the bar for high end airsoft guns over the last couple of years?! wtheck?

THey have created a reputation for quaility and enabled airsoft to flourish here? Since their guns are fairly unreliiable, in my opinion, and there are much better options, and Tokyo Maruis are more famous here in america. Some one is taking drugs!

PurplePeopleEater wrote:

Price to performance quality.

I think they are referring that.

I'd hope so lol..........

Whats worse is that CA is releasing FULL METAL sportline guns. Talk about "wtheck"...

I don't see anything wrong with the above quote.
-Bert.

Honestly you guys G&G has a much worse reputation then CA. I have no idea why you all think CA sucks and has horrible guns and stuff just because they are low on ASGI's charts doesn't mean anything. Bert is the only one who has owned a CA gun so I don't really think you guys should be talking about how bad CA is. I personally (well my Dad) have a sportline and we love it. They are very accurate amazing ROF's and just flat out higher quality than and Echo 1 or something.

The old G&Gs do.......

And OmD said his G&G M14 DESTROYED his CA version. My friend has a CA M4, and my PLASTICA G&G destroys it as well.

Destroys?
What exactly does that mean? I'm sure if he dropped his Full Metal M4 on pavement would it break no if you dropped your plastic M4 would it break yes. CA's have been reliable and have always had a good unlike G&G's. And if G&G's are so great then why didn't yours work out of the box? Why did mine break?

It's all about the QC. I have not owned a gun from either company. But i know that both have had their rough times with lemons and the likes. It used to take CA several tries before theyd get rid of the bugs out of their new guns, still do im sure. Same with G&G used to have terrible QC, and lost alot of business for it. But things change.

Anyway, i was just pointing out the bad business choice of making a full metal Sportline gun, when the Sportline is only $30 less than the Pro version.

sgt. Hartwig wrote:

It's all about the QC. I have not owned a gun from either company. But i know that both have had their rough times with lemons and the likes. It used to take CA several tries before theyd get rid of the bugs out of their new guns, still do im sure. Same with G&G used to have terrible QC, and lost alot of business for it. But things change.

Anyway, i was just pointing out the bad business choice of making a full metal Sportline gun, when the Sportline is only $30 less than the Pro version.

Thank you Sgt.
Now this is JUST AN IDEA but the full metal sportline may have been created to rival the G&G "sportline" which is really the plastica. For $20 more you could get a Full Metal CA. Personally once again I love the sportline and had this been out when I bought my G&G plastic I probably would have bought this if I knew what I know now, if that makes any sense . I don't think we can really say G&G is better than CA because there is a retailer here in NC who won't sell G&G guns because of there quality.

Time for my opinion:
1. G&G is better than CA at the current time.

2. G&G used to be crap. They improved and are now great. Some stores are stuck in the whole "G&G is crap" days and won't sell them. Their loss, because G&G is great now.

3. CA used to be good. They have let their quality slip and are now crap. Plain and simple. Several stores won't sell them now because of it. Smart move. CA's are money tossed down the drain.

Now, with regards to the sportline guns:
You get what you pay for. I've seen more problems with CA Sportline guns than I have with any other guns. G&G plastica guns are picky about their battery among other things.

Frankly, the only Sportline gun that I've been happy with is the TSD/SRC. No problems with mine at all, and I have yet to hear about any problems except for one user with a bad hop-up bucking.

So, long story short, in my opinion:
If you want a good full metal gun, go G&G.
If you want a good sportline gun, go TSD/SRC.

so are the TSD/SRC sportlines better than JGs/E1s? (I'd assume they are, but how much better?)

what are there internals like compared to the TSDs "high end" guns?

Stealthmasterairsofter14 wrote:

so are the TSD/SRC sportlines better than JGs/E1s? (I'd assume they are, but how much better?)

what are there internals like compared to the TSDs "high end" guns?

In my opinion, yes.
The internals are actually the same as the TSD/SRC Gen2 guns as far as I could tell.

could you tell me what are in Gen 2 guns? (as far as internals)

thanks booligan

BTW I know ASGI reviews aren't exactly trustworthy, but almost every TSD sportline was reviewed about 3 stars. (all claimed that there guns jammed even with mad bull bbs)

theprodigy wrote:

Destroys?
What exactly does that mean? I'm sure if he dropped his Full Metal M4 on pavement would it break no if you dropped your plastic M4 would it break yes. CA's have been reliable and have always had a good unlike G&G's. And if G&G's are so great then why didn't yours work out of the box? Why did mine break?

Mine did work out of the box, I have dropped it on cement from arm level (on purpose) CA has been getting worse, etc etc. Also, almost everyone who has bought a G&G recently has LOVED it. Maybe you just got a lemon.

Stealthmasterairsofter14 wrote:

could you tell me what are in Gen 2 guns? (as far as internals)

thanks booligan

BTW I know ASGI reviews aren't exactly trustworthy, but almost every TSD sportline was reviewed about 3 stars. (all claimed that there guns jammed even with mad bull bbs)

Here's my review of the TSD:
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/index.php?topic=59623.0

It has steel gears, bushings, high torque motor, ABS piston and spring guide (but is plenty strong at stock power levels) and was very well shimmed. At the stock power levels, it should last darn near forever. If you upgrade the spring, you'll want to change a few things, but stock, it's great.

As for the reviews, you need to clean the barrel and hop-up before use, like every gun. Mine jammed until I cleaned it.

airsoftman wrote:

theprodigy wrote:

Destroys? What exactly does that mean? I'm sure if he dropped his Full Metal M4 on pavement would it break no if you dropped your plastic M4 would it break yes. CA's have been reliable and have always had a good unlike G&G's. And if G&G's are so great then why didn't yours work out of the box? Why did mine break?

Mine did work out of the box, I have dropped it on cement from arm level (on purpose) CA has been getting worse, etc etc. Also, almost everyone who has bought a G&G recently has LOVED it. Maybe you just got a lemon.

So I got 2 G&G lemons, yea and CA's QC is bad and you told me that it didn't work out of the box but go ahead change your story.

theprodigy wrote:

So I got 2 G&G lemos, yea and CA's QC is bad and you told me that it didn't work out of the box but go ahead change your story.

Wanna try again?

1) First thing, my G&G worked right out of the box.I used my 9.6 first, so maybe that is it. However, my Echo 1 8.4 works, but the battery that came with it doesnt. That battery just sucks, get over it.

2) Ive played 1 on 1 G&G M4 vs CA M4. I had range and RoF(I had two of the exact same batteries, gave him the other one to take out all posibilities of error) on him.

3) Care to address the rest of my post?

Sorry, but I feel like I should interject:
Here at airsoftreports, myself, admin, the other moderators, and even a few users follow the policy that "It's up to you to chose which gun is right for you". That said, we don't encourage policies that "Gun X is better then Gun Y" and whatnot. As such, I personally will not tell you that "gun X is better" speech, because I agree on that principle. And when I chose to become a moderator, I gave up my biased love of Classic Army, with a new goal of just spitting out the facts as facts, and keeping opinions as opinions.

That being said, I did not come here to tell you that CA is better than other brands. I came to say that in my opinion, I love my classic army gun, and I would be hesitant to switch it out for any other gun choice.

Remember, that it's airsoft, not "my gun is better than your gun". Also, keep in mind, that since most guns above $100 shoot nearly the exact same, so generally what you're paying for, is quality and reliability. As such, the advantage of one brand over the other, can't possibly be a reason that one person using Gun X loses to one other person using gun Y.

With that out of the way, now I throw in my opinion, with a few simple questions:
It's been said by at least 2-3 users now that CA's quality has dramatically decreased over the past few years. I got my M15 in march of 2007, and it shoots great and is just fine to this day. The parts are still the same, nothing's changed, but how, exactly has the quality dropped? Have you seen this first hand, or did you just listen to some other guy that said it? And whose to say that mechanical failures are a result of changes in the manufacture of the gun? It is my belief, that there is really no way to say that statement with absoulte security in truth. There's no way to say exactly that quality has dropped, unless you've seen first hand that parts implemented have been changed, and now are worse than before. You can't just look at an echo 1 gun that fails, and say that Echo 1 is bad. In the same respect, I think you can't say the same of CA, or any other brand. In fact, I don't think you could even look at a handful of guns failing, and saying that qualitiy has dropped, since who knows how the gun broke, if it was properly maintained, and not to mention, that there are hundreds (thousands?) of other satasfied customers who own the same gun.

Please, all I am asking, is if you're going to argue, give the proof with your arguement. (example: Sources, Experiences, or if you just heard it form someone). Keep it civil, and I have no problem with a debate.
-Bert.

Booligan wrote:

Stealthmasterairsofter14 wrote:

could you tell me what are in Gen 2 guns? (as far as internals)

thanks booligan

BTW I know ASGI reviews aren't exactly trustworthy, but almost every TSD sportline was reviewed about 3 stars. (all claimed that there guns jammed even with mad bull bbs)

Here's my review of the TSD:
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/index.php?topic=59623.0

It has steel gears, bushings, high torque motor, ABS piston and spring guide (but is plenty strong at stock power levels) and was very well shimmed. At the stock power levels, it should last damn near forever. If you upgrade the spring, you'll want to change a few things, but stock, it's great.

As for the reviews, you need to clean the barrel and hop-up before use, like every gun. Mine jammed until I cleaned it.

that's sounds pretty nice

My E1 G36C has never jammed on me though lol (even when I didn't clean it)

bioniclebert wrote:

It's been said by at least 2-3 users now that CA's quality has dramatically decreased over the past few years. I got my M15 in march of 2007, and it shoots great and is just fine to this day. The parts are still the same, nothing's changed, but how, exactly has the quality dropped? Have you seen this first hand, or did you just listen to some other guy that said it? And whose to say that mechanical failures are a result of changes in the manufacture of the gun? It is my belief, that there is really no way to say that statement with absoulte security in truth. There's no way to say exactly that quality has dropped, unless you've seen first hand that parts implemented have been changed, and now are worse than before. You can't just look at an echo 1 gun that fails, and say that Echo 1 is bad. In the same respect, I think you can't say the same of CA, or any other brand. In fact, I don't think you could even look at a handful of guns failing, and saying that qualitiy has dropped, since who knows how the gun broke, if it was properly maintained, and not to mention, that there are hundreds (thousands?) of other satasfied customers who own the same gun.

I'll toss my hat in this argument. I work very closely with manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers, as well as their tech departments. I've found that, while the number of CA guns sold in the last 12 months has dropped significantly, the number of guns being brought in (purchased in the last 12 months) for repairs has almost tripled.

What does this show me:
That the guns sold in the last year are more prone to breaking down. If the sales had increased on par with the service claims, then I wouldn't say that their quality has dropped, it's the fact that sales have DROPPED but service has INCREASED has shown me a drop in quality. The fact that out of the last 10 guns I personally had to repair, 7 of them were CA's that were purchased in the last year, and the year before, I had to repair only a handful of CA's, shows me, again, that the quality has dropped over the last 12 months. I haven't seen an increase in ANY other brand's needing repaired that is outside of that brand's sales growth.

Now, what's breaking?
Gears. Wiring. Motors. I've seen gears strip with literally 4 rounds through the gun. FOUR ROUNDS FIRED. Most of the time, the gears that are breaking are breaking very quickly and with no other problems reported. Just gears shredding themselves to heck for no other reason. This shows me that the materials used has changed, the manufacturing process has changed, or they are getting sloppy when they put it together, not shimming well, and not ensuring the gears mesh well. Wiring on the G36 series was always bad, plain and simple. I've had to rewire every one of the G36's that I've run into. The new one's motors seem to have short lives, no explanation for that one.

Now, yes, there are a lot of people that have zero problems with their guns, so it's not like 100% of the guns are junk, BUT when I see personally as well as through my far reaching contacts that the overall internal quality of CA guns is going to heck, I can't recommend them to someone in good concience. Now they are doing whatever they can do compete with the China guns. They are cutting costs (remember that 20-50% price drop a few months ago? That didn't come from nowhere, they dropped their price because they dropped their costs, i.e. lower priced materials and labor) and their quality is dropping to match, in my opinion. It could be a large series of isolated incidents (in Nevada, California, and Texas) but the simplest explanation is usually the easiest. Less sales + more service = lower quality.

Now, this is all my opinion based on my personal experience and observations, but it's something to consider. Personally, I won't buy a CA.

Actually, that's exactly what I wanted to hear, so thanks!
Sounds like things have changed. Hopefully they'll pull themselves back together and start building a better reputation... again lol.
That kind of made me mad though, that I really liked my M15, shoots great and all, but when high durability models such as KWA (or in your guy's experience, TSD/G&G) started coming out, you'd think the smart thing to do would be a step UP in quality...

It would be the smart thing, and I think that CA WILL turn around, hopefully with their new models (P90, etc) but for now, they're a no-go for me.

I do hope they turn around, because they're not a bad company at all, they just made some poor business decisions in my opinion. The craziest part is that most of these problems could boil down to literally one guy on the assembly line. One guy doing a crappy job can cause a world of problems.

So remember (to the people old enough to be working), you may not think your job is important, but your entire company's reputation could come down to your actions!